Looks like the playing field has just gotten tougher.............

[Kepperbes]

Guys,

Not sure if you've seen this already but if not, check out this video: http://www.senuke.com/blog/?p=317. Basically SENuke is releasing their XCr module that allows people to use a "Macro Recorder" which will enable them to create a script that will give them the ability to post to any site they like, similar to the Zennoposter recording process. Whats really funny is that I found some similarities in the terminology used in the video. With SENuke being what I would assume to be the current leader of market share for automation software (at least as far as SEO is concerned), this has definitely got me to hoping that the Zenno team will step it up as far as these updates, functions, and bug fixes are concerned because now uBot isnt the main competitor anymore, SENuke is. Granted, I feel it was a smart move for Areeb to bring this type of feature to SENuke, i'm just hoping that the experience of the developers here will keep Zenno on the forefront for creativity, research, and overall development. Hopefully the mods dont do away with this post because this heads up is not only for those of us here who are paying clients of Zennoposter, but this is also a heads up to HB, Darkdiver, and Nuaru that an already huge competitor has just got bigger, and hopefully all of the customer requests have been heard, and duly noted.

 

[manbooobs]

I knew it was coming. I hope Zennoposter understands that this a huge opportunity for Zenno to rise and be better than this new SENuke.

 

[Boxcutter]

Just went through the video. At first I thought it looked a bit weak but after he got into it I have to say it doesn't look too bad at all.

It looks like a cross between magic submitter and a action designer concept similar to ZP.

He didn't go into the email processing but I presume that works with regex etc or click all links.

There is a lot left out in this video though e.g there is nothing about custom 'macros' or using your data via list/tables etc but there is
enough there to spark some interest that's for sure. This is only the beginning of course so who knows how far they will develop this.

A couple of things I do like right away. For starters it is so easy to use the variables or should I say macros (hint) in their version of the action
designer window. In MP for example it is a pain in the ass to use the profile variables in the action designer value box quickly. So that is something
that could be changed in MP. Right click the value box and use variables/macros. Simple time saver.

Another straight forward one that just makes sense but MP doesn't have is that the values are not automatically pulled into the action designer
attribute value field. e.g you select outertext but you still need the extra window open to right of the screen just to copy and paste the values ZP
already has there. Time waster.

I'm going to skip commenting about their scheduler and the power that will have with custom SE scripts and chaining them etc

So anyways this not the place to go on about all these requests but Kepperbes you are spot on. There is certainly another player in the custom automation field and they look to be off to a very solid start. Hope Zennolab get through the updates and make MP faster and more intuitive to use because it's only a matter of time before SE start cranking them out.

 

[Kepperbes]

Just went through the video. At first I thought it looked a bit weak but after he got into it I have to say it doesn't look too bad at all.

It looks like a cross between magic submitter and a action designer concept similar to ZP.

Yep, thats exactly what it looks like.

He didn't go into the email processing but I presume that works with regex etc or click all links.

Thats the thing though, the way SENuke handles email processing is what alot of people had asked for with email processing in Zennoposter.

There is a lot left out in this video though e.g there is nothing about custom 'macros' or using your data via list/tables etc but there is
enough there to spark some interest that's for sure. This is only the beginning of course so who knows how far they will develop this.

Yea thats the thing, who knows how far they are going to go with it.

A couple of things I do like right away. For starters it is so easy to use the variables or should I say macros (hint) in their version of the action
designer window. In MP for example it is a pain in the ass to use the profile variables in the action designer value box quickly. So that is something
that could be changed in MP. Right click the value box and use variables/macros. Simple time saver.

Yea, thats something else that stood out to me was there Macros. Keep in mind, I like the variables that we have now, but I really wish that the Variable/Macro Builder would come along. Its just too difficult in comparison to V3. In V3 we had the ability to create custom macros to simplify a process. Now, it takes me 10 different actions to do what I could've done in 1-2 steps in V3. Seems like SENuke is capitalizing on that.

Another straight forward one that just makes sense but MP doesn't have is that the values are not automatically pulled into the action designer
attribute value field. e.g you select outertext but you still need the extra window open to right of the screen just to copy and paste the values ZP
already has there. Time waster.

I'm going to skip commenting about their scheduler and the power that will have with custom SE scripts and chaining them etc

I'm not. Right now the scheduler in V4 is crap. Sorry Zennolab, I love Zennoposter but this scheduler that we have (8/23/2012 ZP Version 4.0.8.2) is trash compared to ZP3's scheduler. ZP3 you could batch templates and all sorts of stuff. The scheduler worked great. This scheduler we have no you cant do that, and there is a ton of other stuff that you cant do that would make using the software simpler.

So anyways this not the place to go on about all these requests but Kepperbes you are spot on. There is certainly another player in the custom automation field and they look to be off to a very solid start. Hope Zennolab get through the updates and make MP faster and more intuitive to use because it's only a matter of time before SE start cranking them out.

Yea, I guess we'll have to see. Like I said, i'm hoping that Zennolab will see this coming and take action. SENuke currently has the leading market share, and the main reason programs like uBot and Zennoposter were doing so well is because SENuke had no way of being able to create templates and scripts. Now that SENuke will be offering that, its going to make Zennoposter a hard sell when compared against SENuke (unless the Zenno team start adding in those updates we've been begging for that will really make it stand out).

We shall see indeed.

 

[Daikaiser]

Everything has its pros and cons. Senuke doesn't have near the power of zennoposter, but for people who just want to create accounts and backlinks, the new senuke feature may be powerful enough. I believe a big advantage of senuke over zenno is the keyword replacement for links. Is really hard to program a random keyword replacement in zenno, and with senuke you just need to input the keywords you want. Zenno takes time, senuke money. I believe that a more intuitive management of the templates and a random scheduler would make a huge difference, since senuke is almost set and forget. I love zenno, these are just some features that would make the program easier to use in my opinion.

 

[goldsilver]

Everything has its pros and cons.

Agreed, it all depends on which one has more pros.

From the video, I think senuke did a good job to copy many good features from zenno and ubot.

 

[Kepperbes]

Everything has its pros and cons. Senuke doesn't have near the power of zennoposter, but for people who just want to create accounts and backlinks, the new senuke feature may be powerful enough. I believe a big advantage of senuke over zenno is the keyword replacement for links. Is really hard to program a random keyword replacement in zenno, and with senuke you just need to input the keywords you want. Zenno takes time, senuke money. I believe that a more intuitive management of the templates and a random scheduler would make a huge difference, since senuke is almost set and forget. I love zenno, these are just some features that would make the program easier to use in my opinion.

I couldnt agree more, and this is the type of discussion that I was hoping would come from this thread. Hopefully we'll get a much better scheduler in this coming update.

 

[CaptainObvious]

SEnuke has been an opinionated software for years on how SEO should be done, Areebs opinion, and those years of track record show Areeb's judgement calls on software engineering & SEO suck (but he's a smart marketer & built a killer business).

But at the end of the day, doesn't matter what new unicorns and shiny rainbows are added to the UX of macro recording, IE browser based posters (like SEnuke) are going to hit a brick wall with Javascript heavy sites. IE sucks with JS, where as mozilla is famous for their JS chops. Javascript is THE defining feature of modern day WWW. </thread>

 

[marl0_stanfield]

I'm not. Right now the scheduler in V4 is crap. Sorry Zennolab, I love Zennoposter but this scheduler that we have (8/23/2012 ZP Version 4.0.8.2) is trash compared to ZP3's scheduler. ZP3 you could batch templates and all sorts of stuff. The scheduler worked great. This scheduler we have no you cant do that, and there is a ton of other stuff that you cant do that would make using the software simpler.

Well said.

I really love Zennoposter too but it definitely needs to shape up. My biggest issue is with the scheduler.

I find it best to split up my projects into smaller templates that complete their own function like an account creator template and poster template. And because I can’t create a batch file that allows me to execute one template after another I have to baby sit it. This basically makes the whole point of a scheduling a template pointless.

Not to mention that the cache problem makes it so that I have to restart the poster every time its runs with templates that use lists.

 

[Kepperbes]

SEnuke has been an opinionated software for years on how SEO should be done, Areebs opinion, and those years of track record show Areeb's judgement calls on software engineering & SEO suck (but he's a smart marketer & built a killer business).

But at the end of the day, doesn't matter what new unicorns and shiny rainbows are added to the UX of macro recording, IE browser based posters (like SEnuke) are going to hit a brick wall with Javascript heavy sites. IE sucks with JS, where as mozilla is famous for their JS chops. Javascript is THE defining feature of modern day WWW. </thread>

Unfortunately no, not /thread. Areeb has already said that SENuke Xcr will have multi-browser capabilities, and that he's also considering a socket style option in addition to that that will not rely on using a browser at all. Also, all things being equal, we JUST got the ability in V4 to use other browsers, and this software is STILL extremely buggy. It was just a matter of months ago that Zenno users also were limited to IE, and we were victim to that exact same problem that you mentioned above. It took for people to constantly complain about it for it to change. Fortunately, we now have V4 which gives us more browser capabilities, but we arent out of the woodworks yet. From the looks of things, Areeb is attempting to take the best of both worlds (Zennoposter & Ubot), so why on earth would you consider a man like that to not take multi-browser capabilities in consideration? Please post your "</thread>" nonsense elsewhere. This thread was (and still is) meant to discuss how Zennolab will adjust its product in order to better service its customers based on the fact that a worthy adversary has just come into the picture in an attempt to take some of the market share away from Ubot and Zennoposter.

 

[Kepperbes]

Well said.

I really love Zennoposter too but it definitely needs to shape up. My biggest issue is with the scheduler.

I find it best to split up my projects into smaller templates that complete their own function like an account creator template and poster template. And because I can’t create a batch file that allows me to execute one template after another I have to baby sit it. This basically makes the whole point of a scheduling a template pointless.

Not to mention that the cache problem makes it so that I have to restart the poster every time its runs with templates that use lists.

Yes bro, I agree. There have been alot of feature requests lately that I think definitely should've been considered before the "official" release. Granted some of these things may be on their "To Do" list, but certain stuff should've already been squared away before it hit the market IMO. This cache bug for example is ruining the functionality of Zennoposter for ALOT of people. The scheduler in V3 had better functionality than the scheduler in V4, we cant even batch templates. So now this means if I have 2 separate templates; one for registration, and one for posting, im going to have to sit and babysit Zenno to start the poster. In Zennoposter 3 this wasnt necessary. Hate to say it, but the way SENuke's scheduler is leaves alot to be desired, you can daisy chain things from your project to make sure things run on time, and thats something we dont have in Zenno. Magic Submitter too. After reading some more on SENuke XCR on other sites (and their forum), SENuke will do alot of the same forum work that Zennoposter does. Overall, I just hope this means we get more prompt updates, because those SENuke guys update their software like every week.

 

[rostonix]

Overall, I just hope this means we get more prompt updates, because those SENuke guys update their software like every week.

SenukeX team need to constantly update their tool cause when 1 site changes something on it's page, users cannot fix it. That's the reason

Please if you have time give me links to posts about scheduler which i can compile and show nuaru and DD even if they were posted before. If there's something else then replica of v3 scheduler.
Cause here i think i see what you miss.
Or make a list of suggestions for yourself. Thank you

I'm online at skype or PM.

 

[Kepperbes]

SenukeX team need to constantly update their tool cause when 1 site changes something on it's page, users cannot fix it. That's the reason

Yes, thats very true, so now they've adapted with the times, and have decided to replicate the pioneers in site automation (Zennoposter & uBot). The thing that makes it such a big deal though is that considering how often SENuke updates, this means when they have a bug, or a really good feature idea, it wont take them nearly as long to implement that update or bug fix. If you were to look at the changelog for the past 3-6 months of SENuke, you'll see they handle the bugs fairly quickly. Those guys update their software and handle bugs almost every week just to make sure they keep their customers happy. Not only do they update weekly, they tell their customers ahead of time when an update is coming what updates will be there, and what bugs will be fixed. Zennolab on the other hand treats its customers like mushrooms; we get fed sh*t and were kept in the dark. Now let me state that I *LOVE* Zennoposter, and I truly appreciate having the ability to use this software, so I dont want my mushroom statement to be misconstrued, but I, Bigcajones, Drvosjeca, and plenty of other people have been talking about things that would truly set Zennoposter ahead of its competition, but we never get it (again, I dont know whats in store for the next update, or even when we'll be getting the next update).

This is where SENuke is winning. Not only do they fix bugs in a timely fashion without making their customers wait, but they tell their customers when an update is coming so they can know when to expect it, and they'll even tell them what the major fixes will be BEFORE hand so that the customers dont have to wait, on TOP of getting a changelog after the update. None of us know whats in store for the next update, and we have no idea when its coming. Right now the biggest two bugs are the cache, and memory leak, so I hope those bugs will be ironed out, but what about features? Even SENuke is going to have drag and drop. How on earth is it ok for SENuke to get drag and drop before Zennoposter?!? Thats insane.

Please if you have time give me links to posts about scheduler which i can compile and show nuaru and DD even if they were posted before. If there's something else then replica of v3 scheduler. Cause here i think i see what you miss.

Anton, there are several threads about the scheduler all over both the English and Russian forum for this site, compiling them all would be alot of work, especially considering that since im not a mod, I cant compile things as easily as forum mod's and admins can. However, there has been plenty of discussion about being able to batch templates that you were in, and grouping them together and having them work with one another like Zennoposter 3. I dont understand why, but Zennoposter 4 just doesnt have that feature anymore, and it was CRITICAL to making Zennoposter easy to run. Now Zennoposter 4 requires so much baby sitting just to make sure your templates are running right it gets annoying.

Or make a list of suggestions for yourself. Thank you

I'm online at skype or PM.

I would definitely make a list of suggestions, but the only reason that I (or any of the other guys from the group) havent really done it yet is because alot of our requests have gone unanswered. Not all requests have gone unanswered, there were some that we got what we asked for, but the majority still have gone unanswered.

 

[ez0503ba]

From day 1 i criticized Senuke on every SEO blog with proofs that it basically sucks big time. Having that price tag without the ability to add your own sites was a joke if you ask me. But to be honest it is clear that Senuke team has much more man power and money then you guys. I am pretty sure Senuke's macro builder will suck big time at the beginning, but it will get better. Zenno guys really need to step up and must supply us with a stable release. We all know that Zenno has amazing potential but has a very bad reputation over forums about bugs and stability.

 

[Stroks]

I am pretty sure the new Senuke probably won't be able to automate majority of sites, Zennoposter can automate. When we add on top of that, that zenno can be used to scrape things, and then post them, it is very very clear which software is the winner. Additionally, Senuke costs like $1800 per year.

I doubt Senuke team will realize drag and drop soon, and without that zenno is much better.

 

[rostonix]

Guys I just searched forum to see what scheduler threads we got so far. Created separate thread to reduce offtop here and keep things organized:

http://zennolab.com/discussion/showthread.php?6649-Scheduler

Your feedback is appreciated

Anton

 

[marl0_stanfield]

Guys I just searched forum to see what scheduler threads we got so far. Created separate thread to reduce offtop here and keep things organized:

http://zennolab.com/discussion/showthread.php?6649-Scheduler

Your feedback is appreciated

Anton

Should we be expecting these new features in the next update? i really would appreciate it if we could all be including on knowing what fixes will be available on the next update, which i'm assuming will be available shortly. A properly working scheduler means the difference in delaying usage of MP or remaking all my templates in zp3.

thanks

 

[rostonix]

Should we be expecting these new features in the next update? i really would appreciate it if we could all be including on knowing what fixes will be available on the next update, which i'm assuming will be available shortly. A properly working scheduler means the difference in delaying usage of MP or remaking all my templates in zp3.

thanks

I just posted a thread for discussion about scheduler
It's not a to-do list yet.
You can post any feedback there.

 

[marl0_stanfield]

I just posted a thread for discussion about scheduler
It's not a to-do list yet.
You can post any feedback there.

having batch execution is crucial to the function of the scheduler i think its a bit ridiculous that it isn't in the to-do list and yet it is a working feature on v3.

 

[Kepperbes]

I just posted a thread for discussion about scheduler
It's not a to-do list yet.
You can post any feedback there.

Not on the to do list?!? There are multiple threads with people requesting a scheduler that was AT LEAST as good as the scheduler from Zennoposter 3, not to mention that HB said that he'd look into it, and this hasnt been placed on the to do list?!? Anton THIS is the very reason why people havent even really bothered with feature requests. We make requests, and they dont even get added to the "to do list". I have a request that I think isnt too far fetched and Im certain EVERY Zenno user would agree with. If you look at software like Magic Submitter, SENuke, Sick Submitter, and several other of the top selling software platforms, they notify you of updates. They tell you WHEN they are coming, and WHAT the updates will consist of BEFORE the update even comes. We dont get that with Zennoposter. Were told that an update is coming, and thats the only information that we receive. So now we dont even know if all of the bugs will be fixed, or just some of them. We dont know if there will be new features added from the current requests (although I now know that the scheduler will still be crap), we dont know anything. *THIS* is whats going to be what sets SENuke apart from Zennoposter. They are talking about having BIG plans for that software, and now thats going to make things difficult as far as sales because as long as they maintain the business model of pleasing their customers, people will gladly use SENuke.

A good example of this is when that guy over at the Warrior Forum was complaining about bugs and updates, and Nuaru was upset and called him a fat troll. The guys from SENuke would have NEVER done that. They would've taken the positive criticism about the software, made all necessary fixes, and made the software better. This is what I want for Zennoposter. I know it may sound like im pro SENuke, but honestly I just want the Zenno team to get on top of this before the SENuke guys do.

 

[rostonix]

Oh what a negative reaction

Old style scheduler is not in to do list cause there is a concept for connecting projects to each other. That's what I meant. I suggest you to use that thread to post what you need besides that points I mentioned.

 

[Kepperbes]

Oh what a negative reaction

Old style scheduler is not in to do list cause there is a concept for connecting projects to each other. That's what I meant. I suggest you to use that thread to post what you need besides that points I mentioned.

Anton now you know that I wasn't trying to be negative no matter how harsh it may have sounded, you know me better than that . However, I do feel that this is something serious enough that's worth discussing. Zennoposter has an opportunity to be the baddest thing on the planet provided that the developers give the customers what they are asking for. Just something as simple as telling us when we'll get an update, and what the update will consist of will already be making a HUGE step in the direction, because it's something that all of your major competitors are doing, and it's something that is lacking in overall support. Here it is there's an update coming and we don't know what, or when to expect it.

As far as other feature requests, I promise you if people would see the requests being made come true, then they would be a lot more willing to give up the ideas. I mean for example SENuke XCr is going to have drag and drop! Come on, how long have we been asking for that?!? There's a whole list of other things that it'll have that should ALREADY be in Zenno.

For example, their macro system is simple to use. I LOVED the macros from zennoposter 3 because it made things simple, now variables make things a bit more complicated. I don't mind the variables, but of we had a building system like we did in Zenno 3 then it would make things ALOT easier. I know we were told that we'll get that, but again, we're never told when, or what to expect.

 

[CaptainObvious]

he's also considering a socket style option in addition to that that will not rely on using a browser at all

Considering to develop a Zenno like automation framework relying on sockets is like a one legged cat trying to bury a sloppy shit on a frozen pond.

Sockets is one of those cool stories that dreamers sell to n00bs. Its super hard to execute on with a modern javascript application type sites without pathetic success rates, rebuilding alot of the functions of a modern browser is a massive project. And thats only *if* you can kidnap the rockstar super-ninja engineers that already been headhunted for $150,000 plus equity on all the VC backed startups. Yeah, dudes who can get a job @ google yesterday.

You do know IE browser is a sockets application? Microsoft with their $billions, and a team with collective decades of experience, still struggle.

 

[ez0503ba]

Sorry but for since Zenno is in beta having a release like once in a month is totally unacceptable

 

[Hungry Bulldozer]

Just something as simple as telling us when we'll get an update, and what the update will consist of will already be making a HUGE step in the direction, because it's something that all of your major competitors are doing, and it's something that is lacking in overall support. Here it is there's an update coming and we don't know what, or when to expect it.

There are a few reasons why we keep it secret:
1. Wу don't want to share our plans and features with competitors. Why should we? We announce a feature when it is released. We are attentive with forum posts and threads about customer ideas and highly appreciate every single feedback. But we can't implement each of them, we filter it first and see which of them are more necessary, according to some facts (e.g. how many guys support this request).
2. It takes time and additional effort to estimate deadlines. We have them inside the company and sometime feature can be implemented sooner or later than it had been planed. We are not huge company like Microsoft or Google, that have special department that estimate deadlines. We do our best developing ZennoPoster, but we don't call deadlines to prevent giving false promises.

Sorry but for since Zenno is in beta having a release like once in a month is totally unacceptable

A lot of changes were made in ZennoPoster since last release. New build is coming.

 

[Kepperbes]

Considering to develop a Zenno like automation framework relying on sockets is like a one legged cat trying to bury a sloppy shit on a frozen pond.

Sockets is one of those cool stories that dreamers sell to n00bs. Its super hard to execute on with a modern javascript application type sites without pathetic success rates, rebuilding alot of the functions of a modern browser is a massive project. And thats only *if* you can kidnap the rockstar super-ninja engineers that already been headhunted for $150,000 plus equity on all the VC backed startups. Yeah, dudes who can get a job @ google yesterday.

You do know IE browser is a sockets application? Microsoft with their $billions, and a team with collective decades of experience, still struggle.

That could very well be true, but that was only brought up because you put your foot in your mouth saying that SENuke would rely on IE, in which my response was:

Unfortunately no, not /thread. Areeb has already said that SENuke Xcr will have multi-browser capabilities, and that he's also considering a socket style option in addition to that that will not rely on using a browser at all.

So no matter how hard you try to hate on SENuke, these guys are covering all of their basis. Mind you I have both SENuke *AND* Zennoposter, and I would much rather have Zennoposter be the victor in this instance. It may sound like im against Zenno, but im not. What im against is having to wait eons for updates when these other platforms get updated weekly, not to mention SENuke is going to have features that even Zennoposter doesnt have, and we've been asking for these features for over a year now.

 

[rostonix]

Not to mention about price

SenukeX cost $149 monthly
That's roughly $1500 yearly
And it's ready to use SEO tool and not a naked automation framework which is used much wildly than just SEO (which is not fit for lazy SEO marketers or for ones one without much free time)
And it has to be updated weekly for fixing broken chains (changed websites)
And yes, I bet they have much more budget for development

 

[drvosjeca]

I LOVE PUSSY, and i dont care how much it costs...
...same way lazzy SEO guys love SENuke and dont mind paying for it that much, all they care about is that they can "Plug & Play".

There is no point in making argue on this because everyone have his/her point of view and not all of us have same needs.
For me zenno is great because i can do things with it in a way i like (almost, few more things are missing, but close enough), but many others prefere using SENuke because they dont have to spend time learning, building templates, updating templates... On which side are you standing is completly up to you.

It is true that zenno dont have billions of dollars like Microsoft, but who cares about that...!? We are not here to talk about billions, we are here to talk about what can be done in order to improve user experiance, and by that zenno team would be able to take bigger cut of the market.

Now, if you think that nothing can be done better than it already is... well... I must say you are ******!!!
There is always a place for improvement, and there is a good chance to grow zenno bigger as a brand name!


Let us now stop with crap and ask ourself "What can we do to help, and get better and stronger from this competition battle???" ...This is not ment just for me and other users, this is also ment for Nuaru, HB and other guys from zenno team!



PS: Dont come out with some stupid comments now, think twice what are you about to say!



Thank you all,
Dejan J.

 

[rostonix]

It is true that zenno dont have billions of dollars like Microsoft, but who cares about that...!? We are not here to talk about billions, we are here to talk about what can be done in order to improve user experiance, and by that zenno team would be able to take bigger cut of the market.

Now, if you think that nothing can be done better than it already is... well... I must say you are ******!!!
There is always a place for improvement, and there is a good chance to grow zenno bigger as a brand name!

Dejan, from last build there was a lot of work on memory and cache. + parallel work on new features (stand alone bots compilation mostly). + all minor bugs fixes after user reports (thank you guys).

There will always be work on current features if they will not work properly. At the end of the day all functions have to work on 100%
Noone left problems unsolved. Sometimes it just take time and a more work to solve several things )

And I agree that scheduler has to be more powerful ) I miss it as a user too.

If you have something to suggest besides bug reports you're absolutely welcome ( bug reports are always welcomed too!))

This thread is nice but it's not constructive in any way. Compare two totally different tools with totally different price policy.

Cause nuaru and DD know what has to be fixed. And yes, they read all feedback, not only mods. And yes, they work to improve ZP. I remember first public beta for russians

ZP with current functions when they will work on 100% flawlessly is ready and powerful framework. Thats my opinion as a user. If you see the ways for future improvements, you are totally welcome to share your ideas.

And other guys too, of course

Anton

 

[drvosjeca]

]Let us now stop with crap and ask ourself "What can we do to help, and get better and stronger from this competition battle???"

Yes Anton, i know everything needs time and work, but my post was not ment as a critique to ZennoLab, but as a call to make more constructive discussion. You can see this sentence above... that is it.

You and everybody else know that I always try to give your team some valuable feedback... I take my time even to record long video with some weird zenno behavior if needed, but that is not important now.

...my wish is to get something useful out of this, all of us, not just to talk cr*p and do nothing... Simple as that!